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 Rules for multiple hits

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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMar 17 Mai - 13:32

Hi

First off I do not speak french, so apologies for intruding on your forum. But I am going to Volcano this year along with a buddy and there are some rules questions we would like to ask that are specific to the rules you are using. So I started this thread for us non-french to ask question.

I will try to keep all questions to this thread to keep english threads to a minimum on your forum.

So the first question is in regards to the following rule:

Citation :
- Grouping dice rolls: in NetEpic, you should have to assign each range attack dice to a target. Saying, this one shot at this one with 1 dice, the other will shot this one with 2 dices... Long, very long. So we'll use the "Group dices" method for attack and save rolls. You count how many attack dices you have for your detachment, declare target(s) and roll them all. Your opponent will also group armor save rolls for the target miniatures.

How does that rule work with e.g. pulsar shooting at a detachment of tatical marines. Normally it is quite simple as the single model hit with the pulsar is hit the number of times rolled on a d6 (resolved after the to-hit). But as the entire unit is hit with the new rule how is that resolved?

Kind regards
Ronnie Nielsen
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latribuneludique

Nombre de messages : 11018
Age : 45
Localisation : Lyon
Date d'inscription : 07/12/2006

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMar 17 Mai - 13:36

Thread moved in the NetEpic section... Wink
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Sorry   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMar 17 Mai - 13:38

Woops....sorry Smile
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Anonymous


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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMar 17 Mai - 13:42

Hi Ronnie,

a pulsar weapon using "focused attack" can only target 1 stand, all its hits must be assigned to 1 stand/vehicle/...

What we call "Grouped dices" is mostly used when you have 1 detachment consisting of X stands firing at an enemy detachment with Y stands.

If firing detachment has 12 attack dices (for example, a devastator detachment consisting of 6 devastator stands targeting an ork mob consisting of 15 stands), if you just want to shot at this mob, you say: my 12 attack dices against your mob and you roll all the 12 dices at the same time.

With NetEpic firing rule, you should say: this devastator stand uses 1 attack dice against this stand, 1 on this one, another on this one etc...And eventually even say: 2 on this 1, 3 on this one and 1 on this one etc...and finally roll declared dices for each target. This is very long.

With the "grouped dices", you can just say: "all my attack dices on this mob", roll all your attack dices, count how many scored a hit and your opponent do all save rolls (if he can save them). Then he'll remove all stands that failed their armor save if: they are within range and are valid targets. He does not remove those that can not be seen or were not targetted.

Another example: if an enemy detachment has 8 stands in a cover and 4 stands NOT in cover, shooting player can just say: 8 dices on stands outside cover and 4 dices on stands in cover. Then he does 2 different rolls: 1 with 8 dices against those outside, opponent perform armor save and remove casualties from this group and after, shooting player does the second roll with 4 dices against those in cover with the to-hit penalty (if any apply).

You do not have to target a single enemy detachment, just declare before rolling how many attack dices you assign to different detachments or parts of a detachment (ie: 4 dices against this detachment and 8 against that one).


Dernière édition par ScREaM le Mar 17 Mai - 14:07, édité 3 fois
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMar 17 Mai - 13:44

ok, makes sense. Then each stand hit with a multiple hit weapon is resolved seperately to avoid confusion I assume.

Thanks!
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Anonymous


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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMar 17 Mai - 14:04

Ronnie_Nielsen a écrit:
ok, makes sense. Then each stand hit with a multiple hit weapon is resolved seperately to avoid confusion I assume.

Thanks!

Exactly Ronnie.

I've edited my reply with examples to make the rule clearer (I hope).
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Thanks   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 18 Mai - 10:06

Thanks for the detailed answer!
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Feral orcs   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 18 Mai - 10:44

Not really a question on rules, but would rather not make too many threads here Smile

Feral orcs are allowed, can you point me to a codec (ok, if in french, me and google translate are becomming good friends) ?

Thanks
Ronnie
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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 18 Mai - 11:37

Ronnie_Nielsen a écrit:
Not really a question on rules, but would rather not make too many threads here Smile

Feral orcs are allowed, can you point me to a codec (ok, if in french, me and google translate are becomming good friends) ?

Thanks
Ronnie

They are in Ork Gold Codex, it's the "Wildboyz Horde" Smile
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 18 Mai - 12:33

ah! Dident make the connection, but obvious now that you say so. Thanks again Smile
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Unique formations   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeJeu 19 Mai - 6:23

I posted the same question on taccom:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31268

But the question is in regards to how you do your army building in regards to unique formations. The question is:

As I read the rules it is allowed to have only 1 unique card for each 3000 points in the army?

So is it:
1 unique from 1-3000
2 unique from 3001-6000
3 unique from 6001-9000

or is it:
0 unique from 1-2999
1 unique from 3000-5999
2 unique from 6000-8999


According to Primarch it is option 1. But how do you do your army building? Not sure it is relevant, but just started wondering as you play with 3500 points, just above the 3000 point cutoff.

Kind regards

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeJeu 19 Mai - 6:37

I've just replied on TC but for the Volcano In Paris 2016 (it was the same for previous edition), Unique will be considered as option #2.


Do you really want to see 2 Saim-Hann Wind Rider Hosts in a 3500 points battle ?
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeJeu 19 Mai - 7:11

Cool.

I cant field 2 Saim-Hann hosts (yet, the eldar forces keep growing -much to the displeasure of the girlfriend), but personally I am more worried about 2 companies of Guild bikers as they have higher CAF and are near unbreakable Smile

But just wanted to make sure we understand the rules (so no double of mekboy renegades either).

Thanks again!

P.S. Also my force is an Iyanden force, but with model to make the saim-hein wind rider company so I can try that too Smile Not that I have any idea what I am playing at Volcano yet, we just started testing the Volcano rules.
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csuork

csuork

Nombre de messages : 4317
Age : 45
Localisation : Saint Etienne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2007

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeJeu 19 Mai - 16:08

The rulebook is clear : "for every full 3,000 points in your army". So, the option #2, "Vive le VIP 2016 !"

_________________
"Le premié ki kass' mon té, j'lui kass' la tèt' !" Grakor Urg Margor, big boss ork ayant conquis les planètes Ceylan, Lipton et Tchaé

"Mais tu n'as pas joué au Codex Lugdunum 2013 !" "Oui mais j'ai eu un Grakor Urg Margor réalisé par Fabulous Fab, ça vaut toutes les parties du monde ça."

Choix des Armes, le monde forteresse de Kral Xarm, les fameux squats communistes
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Thanks!   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeVen 20 Mai - 6:21

Very clear. We will test accordingly Smile

I look forward to comming to Paris to play with you all!
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
Date d'inscription : 17/05/2016

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 12:52

Another round of questions Smile

1. I see there is a new AMTL codec. Is that allowed in Volcano? Mostly so I know if we should expect to face it.

2. If a detachment of 3 models has barrage and they do not combine (e.g. necron barrages) how do they resolve excatly. Lets pretend I have a unit with 4 models in the unit. I have placed the models in a way that 3 of the models can be covered by the standard barrage templates. Are the barrage templates placed at the same time and then the "effect" of each template resolved one after the other?

3. Now that fliers are resolved in the compulsory movement I want to be sure of the order. Are the fliers resolved along with normal compulsory movement (fall back, instinctive behavior etc.) or after that? I assume the players takes turn resolving compulsory movement? So if I have 3 fall back detachments and 3 flier detachments, I have a total of 6 units to "activate" in the compulsory movement phase.
Normally it does not matter as compulsory movement is dictated by the rules in regards to the movement pattern, but for fliers it becomes important as fliers might want to position according to enemy fliers or other compulsory movement (such as trying to wipe out a unit on fall back).

Plus a random picture of a test game:

Rules for multiple hits 20160616_211207
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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 13:04

Hi Ronnie,

1) Kalia "next gen" AMTL codex is being discussed at the moment, there's some chances that Kalia could play it at Volcano. We've noticed some balance issues after few play-test and Kalia is working on it to solve them.

2) if barrages do not combine, shooting player must place all barrage templates at the same time and resolve attacks for all of them. He can not place 1 barrage, resolve attacks, then place another one etc...

3) Fliers do not move in compulsary movement phase. Fliers move in their own "Flier Movement Phase" that occurs AFTER compulsary movement segment and BEFORE "non flyer Movement Phase".

Hope this helps Smile

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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 13:15

Perfect thanks!

Regarding 2) I just want to be sure.

If all 3 barrages are placed on the same 3 models how are the dice rolled? Are 9 dice rolled and up to 3 units removed ( I assume that only models that are covered by the barrages can be removed)?

The same 3 models (witout save) is covered by 3 barrage templates from the same attacking detachment. Lets pretend its a 6 BP weapon, so its 4+ to hit. Two different methods of resolving the templates after placing them at the same time:
A: 9 dice are resolved at the same time - Average number of hits 4,5
B: First barrage is resolved- 1 hit is rolled and casualty removed (remove 1 model). Next barrage resolved, but now only 2 models are left under the template, so only 2 dice are rolled- 1 hit is rolled and casualty removed. Last template is resolved against the last model.

Scenario A gives more hits on average because each template counts as hitting everything under the template without taking casulties into account. Scenario B is how it is normally resolved in netepic (to my understanding), but with the grouped fire I am uncertain if this is how you do it?

I hope I made it clear, otherwise I will make an even more detailed scenario Smile
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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 13:34

For barrage templates, templates position determine the number of hits per stand/mini.

Example: 3 orks stands and 1 battlewagon are the target of 2 barrage templates. After placing the 2 templates, 2 ork stands are under 1 template, last stand and battlewagon are under 2 templates.

So you can do:

- 1 roll with 2 attack dices for the 2 ork stands OR 2 rolls with 1 attack dice for each stand
- 1 roll with 2 attack dices for the ork stand under the 2 templates
- 1 roll with 2 attack dices for the battlewagon under the 2 templates



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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 14:56

Just a note about the pic:

If my eyes are right, I see that revenant titan on left flank has its order revealed while revenant titan on right flank has still its order unrevealed.

Revenants titan squadron consist of 1 detachment with 2 titans. That's a single detachment that should have a single order (same for both titans) and both titans activate at the same time. They just don't need to keep coherency between them (sentence about independency in description).

This works the same for Warhound Squadron or Slaanesh Titan Squadrons.
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Ronnie_Nielsen



Nombre de messages : 21
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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 15:16

Good spot!

We have been doing that wrong with scout titans in general, as you observed. So thanks for correcting that, one more thing to change Smile

Kind regards
Ronnie
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Lohtan



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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 15:30

That's a really interesting point that I didn't knew about either.
So I guess the Shadow Spinner Squadron, of Dark Eldar army list, works in the same way.
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Ronnie_Nielsen



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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeMer 3 Aoû - 15:33

The gold cards are also wrong as they have them listed as 2 seperate units which is where I based my knowledge on. I know the gold cards are full of mistakes, but they are easy and convenient.


Will inform the playgroup Smile

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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Aoû - 7:03

Lohtan a écrit:
That's a really interesting point that I didn't knew about either.
So I guess the Shadow Spinner Squadron, of Dark Eldar army list, works in the same way.

Yes Dimitri, it's the same for Dark Eldar Shadow Spinner Squadron.

@Ronnie: I did not check Gold Cards as I do not use them.
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Ronnie_Nielsen



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MessageSujet: Re: Rules for multiple hits   Rules for multiple hits Icon_minitimeVen 19 Aoû - 7:35

Some more questions that arose with some playtesting and that we want to make sure we play correctly for when we go play with you Smile

1. When leaving droppods or spore pods - Is the leaving infantry allowed to charge on the first turn (as long as they keep coherency with the troops that failed to disembard)? (deep strike units must be on advance orders, but it is the pods that deep striked, not to infantry inside?)

2. For the Dominatrix, if the 3+ fixed save power is used, how is close combat wounds saved. If the domenatrix looses close combat by 10, does that become 10 individual 3+ saves or a single 3+ save against all 10 wounds for that single combat?

3. For titan vs. titan combat with tyranid titans I am a bit uncertain how it works. Tyranid titans are a multiple wound creature and the rules states creatures with multiple wounds loose 1 wound for each difference in the close combat result. Tyranid titans are also titans and the rules for titan close combat states that the loosing titan takes a hit to a location determined by the winner, without any saving throw. So does tyranis titan loose a number of wounds equal to the difference between the CAF result and a roll on a critical hit template or ?

Kind regards
Ronnie
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